CareersNG

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

@ Datola:
That's the selfishness we've been talking about. Obsanjo of Obasanjo Farms Nigeria or is it Operation feed d nation retired to his farm/hometown to see untarred roads. What's d point? We first need honesty at the grassroots so that bad leaders never come in again. A leader can not lead if followers refuse to follow. I remember telling my mum that I can believe tribalism in 9ja started way before independence and that if she and my dad knew they would keep quiet (though not join) in the nonsense that is going on in Nigeria. WHy they still stayed there and in the end complain or hope against hope.

When I first travelled out of the country I noticed different waves of immigrants: those that left in the 70's, those that left 80's, 90's etc. Imagine ppl knew in the 70's of 9ja's problem and just left since they felt they couldn't change it.
My own is this: it's either
a. I'm there and I'd speak against the rubbish going on (becos my children will reap whatever is there after I'm gone), or
b. I join the bad eggs and enjoy- knowing fully well that whatever my generation inherits in the future has been fully enjoyed by me while I was alive. I definitely wont do this!
c. Or leave (there is no point combining this three or keeping quiet). I won't screw my country and they run. That is just stupidity!

@ Datola:
So in essence, we're suffering for our parent's sins. Abi, y did they keep quiet when the could voice out and refuse to accept crazy leaders? We mustn't make the same "quiet" mistake.

@x-2-x: shey u can hear? you that is talking about dying for nothing. Thing is if u notice that d country's situation is beyond you (i.e.passes ur power), then u leave and attack from outside. Quietness encourages the nonsense. Just check out the holocaust and the like. Even look at the dictatorial regimes

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

.

.


No hassles men.

Make I let u enjoy your weekend.

*X-2-X orders his troops to CEASE FIRE*

.


.

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

Come here! where do you think you're going? Why didn't the Chinese and Japanese become technologically advanced like the free world b4 19th century. Afterall they also had winters. What about native indians and eskimos who lived in the very harshest of conditions. You must answer this one o!!

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

eskimos? God please.

Wikipedia - "A number of Paleo-Eskimo cultures in prehistory, the latest of which (the Early Dorset culture) disappeared around the year 200 C.E. Hereafter, the island seems to have been uninhabited for some eight centuries"

Actually, Anthropologist believe this "disapperance" has continuosly repeated thru'out history. Why? Settlers lost out to the elements (including winter). After this disappearance, the next batch of settlers (from Europe) moved in with a pre-knowledge of the conditions and approach to handling it (which wasnt necessarily fool-proof). Look at Africa. When the Europeans first came here, they died from MALARIA. But subsequent batches that came where better prepared for it.

"Eskimo land" was being wiped out by nature (winter) repeatedly. How would they become a world power?

Theirs is an ongoing battle they havent yet defeated nature. (try and see the TV series - "One Northern Summer" )

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

.

.

.

@Bns, maybe we should start another thread in a more appropriate sub-board.

.

.

.

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

Dude, you're using SPIN. Twisting and maneuvering all u can. We both know what we're talking about. It isn't "accupunture" or some yeye slave built wall. If not Egypt wonder of the world would have made them advanced too now.
We're talking about the winter making a people technologically advanced.
If it is civilization, then where did u leave benin empire, hausa civilizations and yoruba ones etc. Abi, we in 9ja didn't have agbo and all sorts of medications. Even people from eastern europe had winters, yet many of them no get themselves. Dude, we both know that civilization is not the point here.
You just have to accept(except u can bring forth a valid point): Winter doesn't make people advanced PERIOD.

I would have loved to trash all your points to pieces one by one but I know we both know they're not valid points.

What level of technology accompanied the Benin Civilization?


Winter did not bring technology per se, it prompted the people to start thinking and become creative, and that brings technology. The level to which you take your thinking and creativity is what defines your technological advancement. Nobody can seperate civilization from technology, the level of civilization is a measure of your technology. Our ancient civilizations/technology (hausa etc) comes no where near that of Europe or China or native americans, because we werent challanged to think at a comparatively high level.

Western medicine is yet to understand the basis of accupunture even today. Oyinbo can show you why agbo works, can they comprehend accupunture? The chinese technology of 1 Millenium BCE is yet to be understood today. Can you say any such for Benin, hausa and Igbo "technology"?

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

THERE YOU GO AGAIN. You're using spin again!
IS it now about understanding? No my guy! That isn't the point.
The point is this:
Winter didn't help the Chinese to become technologically advaced.

Do you know why we call 1 2 3 arabic numerals? They didn't come from the west but from Aisans. Aside from that the arabs were expert astronomers. Egyptians were expert morticians. Benin people were good at creating metal structures. Almost all groups of people have something they themselves developed. But then no be some yeye winter. As I said before (I only partially agree with you on the winter theory).

We as a people first need to embrace things that others do better than we do and modify it to our system. We have done this in the past with some things: education, constitution etc, but modification is an on-going process.

@Bns, pls read my last post again (I modified it), by the way what do you mean by Spin? I no understand that one. And why do you partially agree with the "Winter theory", what do you and do you not agree with

Why are Benin people good bronze men? (Mind you, I am a "Citizen" of the Great Benin Empire) . There has to be a reason, a need. Technology is borne out of neccessity. Bronze art was borne out of a religious need.

If there is no problem, then there is no need for a solution. Why didnt Africans event genetic engineering of plant species, why did it had to be the Native Americans? Why did the Arab have to be astrologists ? We had less needs thats why we developed less solutions.

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

Let me tell you my own viepoint:
I say Our change starts internally i.e. from our views etc e.g. A 9ja man will use his wisdom to employ more people for a job while someone else may use his wisdom to develope machinery.
Your say Our change is motivated (i.e. in response to an external issue).
In most times, I'd say u're completely right but not always. We're definietly both right with your own argument being more relevant most times. But truth is why is it that we like things like "suffering and smiling" in 9ja. Why can't we get up and be forceful for once? We're so comfortable to the extent that sometimes motivation doesn't work for us. U get me now? That's y the A/c didn't come from the hot regions.

As for Benin, the did cast iron and bronze runs now. That thing we were thought in fine arts counts for something now.

Spin is a skill politicians use to either downplay a fact or overemphasize another fact concerning a matter. It is used to change direction of arguments etc Tony Bliar was an expert at this

_________________
More twisted than dreadlocks

Hmm I think I need to explain again

issue: 9ja has issues! y are we like that? what can we learn from oyibos? what can we do?

u: Oyinbos had problems and problems made them who they are....blah blah.. asia and africa were comfortable and had only religion blah blah....

me: not true! many people had the same "winter" probs and nothing happened. (in essence (unspoken) a. that is not our problem, nor is it where our solution lies).

u: no, it has 2 b motivated.. blah.. blah.. **Goes off topic**...

me: **shakes head (still not getting the point) **
I never diagreed. I was only pointing out 2 things: 1. You made a falacy of hasty generalization (i.e. ur argument isn't always true). 2. This is definitely not applicable to Nigeria's problem now (which is exactly why I emphasized point #1 for you to see that it is not applicable. I also alluded to suffering and smiling to show u that nigerians are not easily motivated). And there goes ur motivation theory **poof** gone like smoke.
And as an interesting wrap up: Religion that you think brings nothing was the motivation for the civilizations you mentioned including USA UK etc. Read your history well.

**Dude my lunch don burn & I need to go to church. I want to see ur answer to this one!

Yes before I go!
In case the religion thing needs explaining. What it means is this:
Sometimes motivation is internal. The strongest forces are passion, love, anger, pain etc Problem with pain is that it makes u do just enough to stop the pain (i.e. motivation from external factors)
love on the other hand (ofcourse I know passion can come from love and even anger) doesn't have to stop! As they say only love can understand time.

2. Religion fortunately or unfortunately presets (or sets) our config for thinking. This is because religion is based on fundamental core values that nothing else covers. i.e. religion is after food & shelter but before any innovation. By religion. I mean a set of guiding principles. Whether u realise or acknowledge that it is from an organized religion or school of thought is irrelevant.

In essence, I'm saying we as Nigerians need re-orientation at the grassroots. That will stop bad politicians from getting in. Not motivation. How much motivation can you give the millions dying daily? The beggars on the streets? The people living in slums?